Sir John Clay in France

The title of this piece should really be John de Clay in France as John was not knighted until c1461 by which time he had as a member of the Duke of Yorks entourage left service in France behind.

It is said that John de Clay came from humble beginnings and that his service in France led him to a good marriage and an entry into Herfordshire society, Soldiers,Nobles and Gentlemen, Coss and Tyerman.

However there was a prominent Clay family already in Hertfordshire, that of Sir John Clay who had been the receiver of Edward the Black Prince at his castle in Berkhamstead and there are many other references to Clays in Hertfordshire and a Sir Walter Clay lies buried in a churchyard in Hertfordshire.

In the book The History of Parliament 1439-1509 V1 page 187 it states that John was born in 1415, we know this cannot be correct because in 1421 he was in France, or is it correct because in 1429 we have a John de Clay as an esquire joining the garrison at Rouen, where the Captain is John Clay. If  John de Clay was born in 1415, he would have been around 15 years old at this point, an appropriate age to become an esquire.

We also know that Sir John as he became was an advisor to the Duke of york and in France acted as treasurer to his household and they were both of the same age, Richard had been born in 1411. Sir John, in fact went on to serve Richard in England and his son Edward IV.

                                             Rouen Castle

      Information from the medieval soldier data base

                                                         https://www.medievalsoldier.org/database/

In 1417 we have two references in the expedition to France, to a John Clay one is an archer under the Captaincy of John Holland, Earl of Exeter and the other is John Clay, man at arms under Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland, overall commander Henry V. Ref TNA E101/51/2

In 1421 in another reference to an expedition to France we have John Clay, man at arms, no Captain and no overall commander recorded. Ref TNA E101/50/28

In 1422, at the Garrison of Rouen we have John Clay. Ref TNA E101/49/31

In 1423, still at the Garrison of Rouen, November 10th under the Captaincy of John Salvayn. Ref TNA E101/49/36

In 1424,  John Claye, Man at Arms, official retinue  Rouen  Garrison, Captain   Sir John Salvyn, October Ist. Ref ANK 62/11/18

In 1429, John de Clay,  St Catherines, Garrison of Rouen,  John Clay, Captain, December 18th. Ref BNF MSF25769                                            

In 1430,  John de Claye Esq, St Catherines, Rouen  Garrison , Captain John Clay, April 26th.  Ref as above                                                         

In 1435,John de Clay Esq, Man at  arms, Garrison Rouen Bridge,Duke of Bedford, Liet/Captain, John Clay,31st July. Ref BNF MSF 25772

In 1435, John  de Clay esq. Man at Arms, Garrison Rouen,bridge,  Duke Bedford, Liet/Captain,  John Clay, Aug.4th. Ref as above

In 1437, John de Clay, Man at Arms, Garrison  Rouen Castle, Earl John Talbot is overall commander, John Clay is Captain, July 27th. ADSM100J/33/16

In 1437, John de Clay esq, Man at Arm, Rouen Castle, the  Duke of  York is Captain and the overall commander is Earl John Talbot, august 27th.  Ref  BLC add c 191

In 1437, John Clay, Man at arms,   Rouen Castle, Richard Duke of York is OC, John Talbot, Captain, October 26th.  Ref BLC addc 192

In 1437,as above , November 16th. Ref BNF MSF25774 no 1260                 

In 1446 ,  List of retinues, Normandy garrison, October 1st. Ref BNF MS F25777 no 1753

Information on soldiers has been taken from the AHRC-funded ‘The Soldier in Later Medieval England Online Database’, www.medievalsoldier.org

                            Notes from books and papers                                     

the herds of the people of Louviers, Godefroy Halton, who commanded the garrison of this town, went out to take back their loot and fell into an ambush where he was taken prisoner with all the men of his company. For a moment, the town of Louviers remained devoid of soldiers and exposed to the greatest danger. At the news of this failure, the lords of the Council sitting in Rouen hastened to send to Louviers Pierre Poolin, lieutenant-general of the bailiff of Rouen, and Jean de Clay, elected, with 6 men-at-arms and 18 archers to horse. A few days later, the siege of Gaillon was decided. It began around May 10, 1424 and continued for two months or more. The garrison capitulated on July 8; she returned the place to the Regent and placed herself “in his grace and mercy.” The English army consisted of 200 men-at-arms and 600 archers. Thomas de Scales, knight banneret, commanded it.  Memoires de la Societe des Antiquiteis de Normandie, page 213        

To Pierre Pooin (), lieutenant general of Monsignor the Bailiff of Rouen, bailiff of Louviers and Jehan de Clay eflieu of the said town of Roum to whom were paid by the said receiver general of the funds of the dictate received, the sum of one hundred pounds tournaments by the order of my lords the people of the great council of the king our fire in Normandy to turn and convert into payment of them, vi men-at-arms and xvnt archers on horseback and by my lords send the last day of April One thousand four counts twenty-three from the said city of Rouen to the said city of Louviers for the safe guard and defense of the said city of Louviers against the king's enemies. Bulletin de la Societe d'Etudes Diverses, page 193, 1424

 Rouen, April 26, 1430.

Receipt of Jean de Cley, captain of Fort Sainte-Catherine, for one month of his wages and those of six men-at-arms and eighteen archers of his retainer, deployed at the siege of Château-Gaillard (1 ). (Arch. de la Scine-Inféricure, Danquin Fund. Original.)

April 26, 1430. The siege and host are now in front of Gaillart. April 26, 1430. Jehan de Clay, squire, captain of the abbey and fortress of Sainte Catherine near Rouen. - May 28, 1432. Receipt for having carried in the victims of Pont Audemer, Auge and Orbec, the order that all French and English who are accustomed to pursue the arms went in the company of the bailiff of Rouen towards Aluve, to give aid to those residents who were besieged there by the adversaries. Bulletin Monuental Vol 20, page 453

Know that I Jehan de Clay, eseuier, captain of the abbey and fortress of Sainte Katherine near Rouen, confess to having had and received from Pierres Surrean, receiver general of Normandy, the sum of eight wines eighteen pounds fifteen solz loan tournaments and payment of wages and salaries of vi men-at-arms and xviij archers on horseback, my person not included, of the number of my retainers for the protection of the said fortress, who are ordered to be at siege and host being at present of-   Histoire de la Ville de Soissons V2 page 304

... Clay, who seems not to have served under Talbot at all before being appointed as his lieutenant at Rouen castle in 1437. However, he had been serving in Normandy for 16 years and had already held a captaincy at Rouen St Katherine, which ...The Soldier in Later Medieval England, page 39

By Adrian R. Bell, Anne Curry, Andy King, David Simpkin

Guillaume de Clinchamp presented to one of the chapelnies founded at the altar of the Trinity, by Jean de Clay and Guillaume de Wyrmyngthonne, squires, attorneys of noble man Richard de Wideville, lord of Préaux and Dangu, and, because from his wife, from the land of Charlemesnil, last July 1428. - Letters from King Henry VI relating to provisions for cures during the truces, Westminster, Archives Saine-Maritime Inventaire V2 page 255

1444, APRIL 22, CAEN

Mandate from Henry VI attaching Master Michiel Piot, one of his secretaries, to the three commissioners, Master Philippe de la Rose, Jean de Clay and Griffith Donn, responsible for carrying out an investigation into the abuses committed by the captains, people of war and justice of the bailiwick of Caen and allocating as such to the said Michel a daily allowance of 40 sous tournaments.

Henry, by the grace of God king of France and England, to our friends and fathers, the treasurers and general governors of our finances in France and Normandy, greetings and love. As with our other letters given to Caen on the third day of April this past month, we would have committed and ordered our beloved master Philippe de la Rose, master of requests at our hostel, Jehan de Clay and Griffith Donn, esquires, to inform them of several crimes, murders, mutilations, abuses, robberies, pillages, exactions and other delitz and hexes committed and committed in the bailiwick of Caen and committed by no captains, men of war, officers, people of justice and other persons on several of our names remain under the ends and duties of the said bailiwick, and of all that done and found would have reported in writing reliably closed and sealed by our very dear and very beloved cousin Richard, Duke of York, our lieutenant general and governor from us of our kingdom of France and duchy of Normandy, to be provided for; and it is thus that, by the order of our said cousin and lieutenant, our beloved and faithful notary clerk and secretary Maître Michiel Piot has with great diligence gone and heard daily with those above named or some of them for, CHRONICLE OF MONT-SAINT-MICHEL, page 180

2577. - 1429, September. Paris.

Remission to Jacquet Le Saige, born in Pontgoing and valet of Jean de Claye, elected as aid in Rouen, prisoner in Mantes for having killed a page of his master in Chanteloup (174, nº 75, fol. 31).  Le Payes de Loire Moyen  dans le Tresor de Chartes page 267

Returning from the Loire campaign, towards the end of February 1429, he was replaced, on the following June 1, by the knight Louis Despois, in his triple government of Montjoie, Saint-Germain and Poissy. Captain of Essaye in Normandy (1431), master of the waters and forests of the bailiwick of Alençon (1432), he must have died shortly after; because his wife, Jeanne, said she was a widow, on November 16, 1435, in an act in which she constituted for her representatives, nobles Jean Clifton, Jean Hanforte and Jean Clay. Capitaines et Gouverneurs, page 39

1441

Watches of men-at-arms in the service of the King of England in Normandy commanded by Richard de Wydeville, captain of Fresnay-le-Vicomte; Jean Penyngton, captain of Pont-Audemer: Roger Ingreland, lieutenant of Essay; Richard Haryngton, bailiff of Caen; the lord of Faucomberge, captain of Domfront: Jones Standish, captain of Orbec: Hue Stanlaw; Thomas Moude, captain of Sainte-Catherine-lès-Rouen; Adam Hilton, lieutenant of Pont-de-l’Arche; Jean de Clay, lieutenant of Rouen; Henri Gray, Count of Tancarville; John Haneford; Simon Morhier, treasurer of Normandy; François de Surrenne known as the Aragonese: the Count of Eu: the Duke of York; the Lord of Talbot: Henri Griffith: Jean Bourgchier: Thomas Gargrane; Jean Norbery, governor of Arques; Ilenri Nesbury, captain of Pont-de-Rouen; by Scales. Monuments Historiques

Oct. 8, 1438. Agreement between the king and Guillaume de Néville, sieur de Facomberge, captain of Evreux. -1446. The lieutenant of Jehan de Clay, squire, bailiff of Evreux, is responsible for receiving the income from the benefices belonging to church people absent and disobedient to the king our lord in the vicy of Orbec.-1447. Richart, Duke of York, Count of La Marche, Vulcestre, Evreux and Beaumont le Roger and lord of the viccounties, chastelleries and lands of Orbec, Conches and Bretheuil. Francaise d'Archeologie, Bulletins Monumental, page 441

We find in the registers of the Hôtel-de-Ville of Lisieux the names of the following English captains: 10 Jean Kikelley (1), appointed immediately after the capture of the city. (A few years later, on August 20, 1421, the King of England Henry V regularized this part of his administration by making regulations on the captaincies of conquered cities) (2). 2° In April 1418, Louis... -3° In 1422, John Kiskeby (3).- 4° In 1430, Thomas Redburg.-5° In 1456, William Binton, knight. 6° In 1437, Guillaume Bourgeois, knight. - 7. In 1438, Hue Stanlawe, squire. -8° In 1439, Jean Talbot, earl of Shrewsbury and Waterford, famous English captain; his lieutenant was Richard Gould, squire. The bourgeois of Lisieux, when Jean Talbot took possession on December 29, 1440, presented him with a silver cup weighing one pond five ounces, a mark of white wine and two hundred bushels of oats. When Richard Gould arrived in the town, he was presented with three barrels of cider, 100 bushels of oats and 300 bales of hay; cider was then worth 40 sols per barrel, oats 23 deniers per bushel and hay 23 sols 4 deniers per hundred. -9° Jean de Crécy. -10° Guillaume Båton, perhaps the same as Binton. -11° In 1441, Jean Salvain, knight, bailiff of Rouen; Thomas Reddon was his lieutenant. -12° In 1443, Nicolas Bourdet. -13 In 1443, Jean de Crécy; Thomas Reddon was his lieutenant. - 14 In 1444, William Wyntzfeld. 15° In 1444, William Oldehall.

16. In 1444, Jean de Crécy, knight. 17. In 1446, Jean de Clay, squire, bailiff of Evreux. In 1446, John Wylffyd, squire. - 19° In 1447, Thomas Redhon or Reddon. Histoire de l'Anciens de le Eveche, Comte Lisieux page DLVI

Clay (Jean de), lieutenant general and governor of France and Normandy. Collection de Documents inedits sur l'Histoire, Vol 7 5449

HOTEL OF THE DUKE OF YORK

Tonnière (Pierre de la), stable squire........

Mulso (Edmond), knight, servant of the Duke of York. Clay (Jean de), treasurer of the hotel......Ref as above

John Clay served in France from 1421 and was Treasurer of York's household in France by 1443.

The Reign of King Henry V1. The Excercise of Royal Authority, page 702

1460. Dec. 2nd. Appointment of John Clay as Purveyor to Calais.  Calendar of French Rolls membrane 8

1460. Particulars of John Clay keeper of the victuals and stores at Calais. Lists and Indexes issue 35).

In 1461, Sir John Clay was part of an Embassy mission to France

an embassy came to him from King Edward of England, who of the said duke was very honorably welcomed and greatly feasted; it was the chief embassy, sir Jehan Venlocq, grand  baron of England wearing the Order of the Garter, with him a knight named sir Jehan Claix, and a very notable law clerk who called himself dean of Bordeauz, who proposed before Duke Phelippe for King Edward; they were accompanied by a notable squire called Thomas Vagant, native of the country of Wales, high esquire of the king's stable. Rerum Brittanicarum, page 412

   The family of Talbot, Lords Talbot and Earls of Shrewsbury in the         

                                                            15th Century

                                                                                                    A  J Pollard

The established captains were Sir William Breton, Sir Nicholas Burdet, Sir Richard Curson, Sir Thomas Hoo, Sir John Melton, Sir Henry Norbury, Sir William F (twice), John Clay, Fulk Eyton and Thomas Gower. (Hoo and Eyton actually succeeded Talbot as captain of the places in which they acted as lieutenants). Talbot's promotions were Richard Bolt, Willian Cornwalle, Richard Gond, Thomas Eton (or Elton), John Wake and probably Thomas St Thomas Curson and Richard Gower were probably the sons of these.

The established soldiers were John Curzon of Keddleston, Derbyshire who had fought at Agincourt, John Clay of Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, who had been his lieutenant at Rouen, and Thomas Pigot of Roxwell, Essex, who had already crossed the border in 1435 (Wedgwood, p245; CPR, 1429-36, P476).

He retained many established soldiers of fortune, but towards the end of the war those who were successful turned to permanent service as one or both of royals, Somerset and York. (1) Only members of his personal retinue returned to England with him. And indeed, this “brawling company had someone (James, Lord Berkeley) to intimidate. At least five veterans of Talbot's retinue were in Lady Margaret's retinue when she entered Berkeley 1451. These and at least one other probably accompanied her to Gascony, and two others survived to serve her heir. (2) Certainly the return of personal su brought new servants into his affinity, but it is doubtful whether this seriously affected his size or behavior.

(1) Oldhall, Ogard, Clay and Gower, for example, looked to York. Hoo and Scales were also at one time his advisors, but they later turned to Somerset. Sir Richard Harrington was more decidedly Somerset's man. The less fortunate turned to charity after the war. Sir Robert James, for example, who had served in the wars for thirty years or more (and sometimes under Talbot and who had been taken prisoner no less than four times and who, at the fall of Bayeaux, had lost everything he owned), was granted alms to the college of St. George, Windsor, on August 12, 1451 (CPR, 1446-52, P470-

John Clay returned to England in the service of Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York, when Richard was killed at the Battle of Wakefield on the 30th of December 1460, John served under his son, Edward who in 1461 became Edward IV, he was knighted by Edward and died in 1464. He had a son, John who was knighted by Edward IV after the Battle of Tewkesbury in 1471.

If you want to fnd out more about Sir John Clay go to our links page and click on www.sirjohnclayofcheshunt.eu/

We have also found reference to what we believe to be the personal motto of Sir John Clay, the elder.

Brevia Parliamentaria Redivivia, page 45

"Mel Gladiis accinti"

which translates to

"Honey girded with swords"